I am assuming your DD did not go because she couldn't or didn't want to and not because the group purposefully excluded a handful of people. If that is the case, I see nothing inappropriate with the class meeting outside of the actual church, even during class. However, they should have made every effort to inform all the people ahead of time that they would be going out that day so that everyone could plan to go.

In my opinion it should have been everyone or not done at all. Also I agree social outings should happen outside of Sunday School.

We actually left a church when my children were younger because they had my sons moving tables, etc. on Sunday mornings instead of doing lesson plans.

I, too, am somewhat old-fashioned, and feel that church/SS is for learning about God, and that it should take place in the building designated as your House of Worship. However, I also realize that we are losing our young people sooner and sooner these days, and I, at 40, still feel like a young person. Because of this, some churches have had to get creative in how, and where, they teach our youth. I think it is OK to occasionally meet outside of our House to learn about God, and do some socializing, as long as the focus is on God and His teachings.

However, it sounds as though this particular situation was just to socialize, and seems to have excluded those who may have had to ask permission, because of still being in high school. That, I feel, is wrong. I understand spur of the moment situations, but your SS class is somewhere you should always be included. Though your DD did not feel excluded, she definitely was. Intentionally, or not, if all could not go, it should have been a social gathering outside of SS time, not during.

I am reading a great deal in to your post here, I realize, and without the whole story, it is difficult to make a definite decision. I usually shy away from sharing my strongly held beliefs on this board, as I feel it is for crafting, and not a place for me to get on my soapbox, so to speak. But, in this instance, and because I consider myself a friend of 1CoolMom's (and she is, BTW), I felt I could say how I feel without upsetting her. So, I would have had no problem with the class going for lunch if everyone had had the opportunity to be included, and outside of your regular worship time, or if the luncheon had been used as a creative way to teach God's word, and again, everyone had had the chance to be included....meaning it was planned in advance, or held, even by surprise, at the church. This does not appear to have been the case. Maybe, I too, have become an old fuddy-duddy at a young age, but I would have been unhappy had this happened in one of my sons' classes, and would have asked to be informed were this going to be a regular thing, so that my sons could attend church with me, or other arrangements could be made. I, and, my family, go to church, and Sunday School, to learn and practice God's word, and socializing is something that occurs as a result of people being gathered together in the same place. So, again, this would not have been a problem at all with me, had it been used as a creative way to teach God's word, and all had had an equal opportunity to go, OR if it had occurred outside of normal church time.

That is my opinion. Beautiful thing about that, we all have them, and are entitled to them, so please take it as just that. I mean no offense to anyone. I do not think any harm was intended or actually done in the long run. I do think if this were to continue, however, I would speak to the youth Pastor or whomever your church has in charge of their youth programs, and relay my concerns. Sorry for such a long post, maybe I did hop on a little bit of a soapbox after all. GG

Sorry, I did not respond to a couple of things.

DD did not go because we give her a set dollar amount that she can use for outings: dinner with friends, movies, etc. By the time they announced the social she had spent her money. We are really trying to make her stick to the budget because she is leaving for college in the fall and we want her to realize she cannot do everything because there is no magic money tree. She choose not to even ask for this reason.

Her best friend that comes to church with us is the child of a single mom. They barely make ends meet on a regular basis, she could not afford to go. Now, if they girls had asked to go we would have paid for both of them.

One of the guys parents would not allow him to go, I am not sure about the other one.

I am not in any way arguing with you Char, but your comments did make me curious. I left for college over 20 years ago, but even then, older high school students and college students were not routinely supervised with the opposite sex. I started dating at 16 which was the norm among my classmates. I was dropped off 2 1/2 hours away from home when I went to college where I lived by myself in a dorm with no rules about the opposite sex. At 17, I was unsupervised 24 hours a day/7 days a week. Is this not normal any more?

I only ask because when reading the original post it never occurred to me to wonder about supervision.

This makes me think of something that happened at church a few months ago when our DGS was dedicated (he just turned two at the time.....I know, that's kind of old to be dedicated, but he had not been, as yet, and I took the opportunity when our DS and DDIL brought him home for a visit to see if they would like to have him dedicated in the church they were married in, and they did).

Our church makes a CD of such events for the parents and grandparents. We were in the front pews, so you could see part of our family along the aisle of the CD contents.

Our DSIL (our DD's husband) and our oldest DS and DDIL were also in attendance. After the dedication, and when all the little kids went up for their "Children's Time" and prayer was being said, our DSIL, who was seated next to me, so you could also see him in the video, was looking around behind us and all over the whole the prayer was being said for the children and not bowing his head in prayer. At first, I was critical of this. He doesn't know we have this CD and I have no reason to let DD and/or him know we do. Then, when I presented this to my friends, one of my closest merely said, "maybe he didn't feel like praying right then"!! It was that simple to her.

So, I did decide I didn't need to judge that, also. LOL.

What next? What do you all think of that.....not to hijack this thread, though.

Char

Edited by user Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:37:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Char, My children are living your "sheltered" life. We are considered "ODD" by our friends. As I said above my kids are not allowed to date until 16 and that is supervised. At 18 they can go on dates alone but only if we know the person. We taught our kids this from the time they were little bitty and none of them have an issue with it. They were not allowed as preschoolers/elementary students to say they have boyfriends and girlfriends. They do not go to school dances until their senior year, etc.

I was just curious because I am only really familiar with where I grew up. I graduated from a high school class with over 1600 students, so not a small town. I now live in a small town and I have noticed that the kids do seem to have less independence. I didn't know if it was a product of the small town or a product of modern society or both.

As for little dating experience, the first boy I dated was the only boy I dated. I met him at 15, started dating him at 16 and we have been together ever since.

I don't have a problem with them going to lunch. What I do have a problem with is the 4 kids that did not go. It is still considered "School" and this was a field trip. At our parish, if there is a field trip, regardless of what that field trip entails, there are permission slips that need to be signed and there is advanced planning done. Parents are notified and they know where their kids are and what they are doing while they are in our care, custody and control. It doesn't matter how old the kids are, parents still need to know where their kids are and what they are doing. Some parents of the kids who went may not have wanted their kids to go.

JMHO

I commend you, 1CoolMom for taking steps to improve your life. You could have easily "slipped through the cracks", but you made one of the most important steps, IMHO, that anyone can take. You got back to church....thank the Good Lord you had God in your life when you were smaller.

When I said I grew up "sheltered" and in a very small town, I meant it. I graduated with a class of 52....so, our high school probably only had 230 or so in it!! LOL. A really small school. I graduated in the top 10%....tenth, if I remember right! The biggest town around (that's not where we went to school) was eight miles east of us. We went there regularly for groceries!! My parents had a small grocery store (we actually sold luncheon meats and ground hamburger and all kinds of solid cheeses to slice for our customers) and two of us older kids of five helped in the grocery store until we left home and were out on our own. I suspect the highest of sales there were cigarettes and pop. We didn't sell liquor. The town to the east of us probably had a population of 16,000....today, I live there and we probably only have 13,000 today.

I always credit GOD for getting me where I am today. Dad and mom made sure we kids went to church every Sunday morning. They didn't go; but, they worked hard to put food on the table and a roof over our heads. Until I left home, I went to church every Sunday morning, SS, church in the evening AND church every Wednesday night. That was all there was to do. Those were the good old days of revivals....so, when the preachers came through, we would have two weeks of EVERY NIGHT SERVICES. Yes, I went to all of those, too. LOL. Those preachers who had done everything we were always told we shouldn't (it used to really make me mad), had finally turned their lives around and became preachers of the Word. Here we were trying to do everything as right as we could and then these guys come along and basically told us they had sinned most of their lives....it didn't sound right to me.

IT IS REFRESHING to hear others (you) who are much younger than I (I'm 69 and I'm only guessing you might be in your early 40's...may not there yet) with the same core values and desire for their kids. Actually, I think there are more of you out there than society leads us to believe; we just see way too much of what's not right out there and it paints a pretty bad picture of where we're headed today! I see a lot of young people out with their kids and treating them very good and seeming to CARE a lot about them. And, their children are behaving and seem very happy.

Char

My DD is 18 yrs old but is still in high school. When they do "youth" activities they require a permission slip. I will have to ask DD if the teacher required them but she did not get one since she knew she wasn't going. But in our county, once a student is 18 yrs old they don't have to have parental permission for anything. DD could sign herself out of school and call herself in sick because "legally" she is an adult even though she is still living at home and we support her. My children KNOW if they ever do it they will have severe consequeces including having to pay rent to us. If they want to be an adult, I will treat them like one.